tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post216589050308807941..comments2023-07-05T05:16:54.735-05:00Comments on Chuck Masterson’s Actual Blog: Idea ManChuckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-54074865454567284112008-08-04T19:44:00.000-05:002008-08-04T19:44:00.000-05:00That quote reminds me very much of the book Ishmae...That quote reminds me very much of the book <I>Ishmael</I>, by Daniel Quinn. Especially this part: "[The illusions] are likeliest to lurk in those widespread assumptions which are so ingrained in the age that no one dares to attack or feels it necessary to defend them." I recommend the book.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-69242601198896270172008-08-04T19:10:00.000-05:002008-08-04T19:10:00.000-05:00Well, I for one think your analysis is spot on. In...Well, I for one think your analysis is spot on. In as much as one could measure the likelyhood of something like this happening,it is measurable and I think almost inevitable, whether it takes days or years for america to collapse. We will either adapt in a radical paradigm shift, or we will cease to live as this world of "America" lives. Our sense of entitlement to an always improving life in america is laughable at best.<BR/><BR/>Dave<BR/><BR/>Chronological Snobbery<BR/><BR/>"why-damn it- it's' medieval"' I exclaimed, for I still had all the chronological snobbery of my period and used the names of earlier periods as terms of abuse....Barfield made short work of what I have called my "chronological snobbery", the un-critical acceptance of the intellectual climate common to our age and the assumption that whatever has gone out of date is on that account discredited. You must find out why it went out of date. Was it refuted(and if so by whom, where, and how conclusively) or did it merely die away as fashions do? If the latter, this tells us nothing about its truth or falsehood. From seeing this one passes to the realization that our own age is also "a period", and certainly has, like all periods, its own characteristic illusions. They are likeliest to lurk in those widespread assumptions which are so ingrained in the age that no one dares to attack or feels it necessary to defend them.... We had been in the technical sense of the termm "realists", that is, we accepted as rock-bottom reality the universe revealed by the senses... we maintained that abstract thought(if obedient to logical rules) gave indisputable truth.<BR/><BR/>C.S. LewisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-69733389853340452112008-08-03T21:07:00.000-05:002008-08-03T21:07:00.000-05:00We received an e-mail from Irene today (she and th...We received an e-mail from Irene today (she and the Herrings are in Alaska. Thought you might want to know how far and wide your fame has spread. G.Pa.<BR/><BR/>My turn to send a little answer -- nothing much new to report. We had a nice late morning this morning, halibut fish and chips for brunch, and are now waiting for a "wilderness tour" when we will ride an old school bus up into the part to see Denali itself, if visible. Looks like maybe there might be a chance since there are some large patches of blue sky and sunshine all over. But the wind is vicious -- feels like December in Washington.<BR/><BR/>We have met up with a just graduated Grinnellian working here in the park. She knew about the kid who wanted the barefoot rights. She's glad to meet up with a couple of other Grinnellians, even such ancient ones, because she's not liking her job here. We're trying to encourage her to keep looking! She's probably going to try to stay in Alaska. Maybe she can help out Nathanael if he comes here!<BR/><BR/>Oh, well, enough pie-dreaming. Later. Love, I.<BR/><BR/>So enoough of this blog. We need a new one we can all HARP on. G.PaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-80418080180158974952008-08-03T20:21:00.000-05:002008-08-03T20:21:00.000-05:004:20 dude4:20 dudeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-54033225376107061532008-08-02T22:07:00.000-05:002008-08-02T22:07:00.000-05:00boring Boring BORING ANDboringboring Boring BORING AND<BR/>boringAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-52102323875558219792008-08-02T21:22:00.000-05:002008-08-02T21:22:00.000-05:00I realize, of course, that everyone made shelter. ...I realize, of course, that everyone made shelter. There's a section on shelter in the book I ordered. <BR/><BR/>I'm not against living in a dorm room specifically for the purposes of this idea I've got. Rather, the whole urban environment is the opposite of what I'd want going on. It's hard to practice primitive skills in the middle of a town - there's not a whole lot of stuff to scavenge, and what there is is in someone's yard. So, I'd have to commute to the wilderness. Seems counterproductive to me.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-40436082194197938762008-08-02T20:59:00.000-05:002008-08-02T20:59:00.000-05:00The Indians did not just "live outside"- a teepee ...The Indians did not just "live outside"- a teepee is not "outside"- it is a very well-made structure. Most people do not just "live outside"- every kind of group of people adapted to the environment. Scandinavian peoples and 6 Nations peoples lived in pretty snowy and woodsy places and so they developed communal longhouse living- different cultures but both seemed to figure out the best way to make use of resources and in about the same way. Similar kinds of food, too. If you look at people gropus in very different places with the same climate and resources, they come up with some of the same ideas. <BR/>I don't think the people currently living are much different from those and others in the past...and present...there are more of us so we exist on a larger scale. Communication made it possible for our little commune to expand. <BR/>I do not think you should live outside during the time you study at Grinnell...at least you can camp as much as you want to and maybe start the GO thing, but you're going to have to have an address. And also there's not much so un-primitive about living in a big structure like a dorm room. Consider it a cave. No bears to contend with, even.<BR/>You can learn to survive without it, and then live with it knowing you CAN survive without it if you have to.<BR/>I will come over and tan the animal hides and be the grandma that watches the babies.<BR/>MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-14607162792774711152008-08-02T14:26:00.000-05:002008-08-02T14:26:00.000-05:00And to think that most teenage boys are buried in ...And to think that most teenage boys are buried in computer games and other electronic gizmos, and they have forgotten what outside is like. And then there's Nathanael who is challenging everyone with his thought provoking ways. I say go for it, I'd rather have my grandson be a brilliant genius and future analyst than a brain dead game player. And that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. GrandmaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-66458853206898077952008-08-02T10:37:00.000-05:002008-08-02T10:37:00.000-05:00Oh, and yes, you may all come over and poop in my ...Oh, and yes, you may all come over and poop in my hole. If you're nice, I may even let you have your own hole.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-35803452296384847892008-08-02T10:35:00.000-05:002008-08-02T10:35:00.000-05:00Okay, guys, I feel like you're all getting me wron...Okay, guys, I feel like you're all getting me wrong on this. I haven't made up my mind whether to believe this is happening or not. I see ways that it could, and ways that it couldn't. Because I see both, and not just the possibility of perpetual civilization, I'm looking like some sort of Godesky nut. I'm far from that. Though the possibility (however probable or not) of a collapsing civilization is a good motivator for me to work on outdoor skills, I would work on them whether or not this were impending as Godesky claims it is. And, despite defending his claims, I still haven't made up my mind one way or the other (because I need to read his stuff again) whether I believe Godesky. I'm defending it because it looks to me like it's a reasonably well-done argument that has the possibility of being right, and that possibility is something that would make us all pay attention pretty effectively; so, I'm defending it from the criticisms you're giving it, which are pretty shallow ones. Maybe you can give me some deeper ones, although if you want to spend your time doing that, you actually ought to read his <A HREF="http://anthropik.com/" REL="nofollow">Thirty Theses</A>, and the criticism that other people have already given them beneath each one. Basically, the reason I'm invoking the collapse scenario in writing here is to let you know of one thing that's motivating me to learn my wilderness skills quicker, and you all can choose for yourselves whether or not you think it's a load of poppycock. I get the vibe that you're all going to say "IT SURE IS" instinctively. Well, maybe think about the other possibility as an actual possibility, not just some raving, before you dismiss it. Or, whatever. I don't care a whole lot at the moment.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-60340555298456852042008-08-02T09:07:00.000-05:002008-08-02T09:07:00.000-05:00OOOOPS! I finally figured it out. All of this n...OOOOPS! I finally figured it out. All of this negative stuff is supposed to raise our ire, and is just a writing exercise to see if you can "get" to us. You are honing your skills for a future editing job. And the more you deny it the more it has to be true. G.Pa I rest my caseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-60682414278248993972008-08-02T09:03:00.000-05:002008-08-02T09:03:00.000-05:00I am not going to prepare. Can we all come over a...I am not going to prepare. Can we all come over and poop in your hole during the GREAT COLLAPSE"? G.PaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-9416519800932412112008-08-02T00:10:00.000-05:002008-08-02T00:10:00.000-05:00My point in mentioning the Depression and WWI was ...My point in mentioning the Depression and WWI was to note that catastrophes can happen quickly, not that they're all fatal to civilization.<BR/><BR/>Note, however, that as we've gotten more and more civilized (and been able to have a greater impact on ourselves and the planet), our catastrophes have become correspondingly huger. A while ago, the biggest thing we had to worry about was the Irish Potato Famine. Now, we have behind us a civil war that killed hundreds of thousands, a dust bowl that saw most of the former prairies' topsoil swept away, a depression that made life a difficult proposition for a whole country, two world wars - one settled with nuclear weapons that killed seventy thousand in seconds, the narrowly avoided Cuban Missile Crisis, and September 11th. A huge catastrophe along these lines could start off a chain reaction that would encompass economic crisis, infrastructure failures, and ultimately a collapse. We think of our civilization as getting more and more sturdy as it gets bigger, but really, as more population pressure wells up on it, it becomes more and more fragile and sensitive to smaller things. Global warming has already shown its power in destroying New Orleans. Droughts and floods are showing up everywhere. Food prices are increasing at a very noticeable rate, as are oil prices. That's because both of these things are getting more scarce; peak oil is much closer than people think - in fact may be upon us. Things will just deteriorate. It won't be pretty. Now, this is all still not a certainty, and I'll never declare that anything about a potential collapse is a certainty, unless I see undeniable evidence of it. However, collapse isn't impossible. It's happened before, and it's happening currently in many places, like Africa and South America. Who knows but that Barack Obama may help the US ease into a sustainable form of society, and Asia will somehow decide it doesn't feel like rising to the First World's untenable standard of living. (The US isn't the biggest problem for the future of the world; it's China, with its aspiration to attain our standard of living. If everyone on the planet lived like Americans do, we would need three Earths to provide for us all.) I don't know what the future holds, though I'm going to be reading a lot and observing a lot to try and figure it out better. But I'm preparing for the worst. (By worst, I mean worst for civilization, and best for the rest of the planet. Extremely bad for most people, who would die in a collapse. But if civilization were to collapse later than that, it would be even worse, because more people would die. Civilization as it is is unsustainable. Its course is toward something sustainable, or toward an end.)<BR/><BR/>You know, I really need to read more about this so I can write with more authority behind my words. But I believe what I've written just now is pretty accurate.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-61883064619342584122008-08-01T21:15:00.000-05:002008-08-01T21:15:00.000-05:00The Great Depression, WWI and WWII all passed. Civ...The Great Depression, WWI and WWII all passed. Civilization corrected itself. It wasn't pretty but all of these things are a mear road bump in the rear view mirror driving down the road that is the history of civilization.<BR/><BR/>My outlets still have electricity.<BR/><BR/>DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-53904386663419286042008-08-01T20:36:00.000-05:002008-08-01T20:36:00.000-05:00A fine comment from the peanut nazi!History teache...A fine comment from the peanut nazi!<BR/><BR/>History teaches us that things often do change very quickly. Viz.: The Great Depression (it all started suddenly on October 29, 1929); the Balkan Powder Keg igniting WWI (maybe II, I don't remember exactly). It's just that things change slowly when they depend on <I>people</I> to change - which is why it's taken us this long to start working with the environment. However (if Godesky is right), civilization's collapse isn't a sudden thing. It's been in the making ever since civilization started. The roots of civiliation are the ultimate cause; peak oil or globabl warming will be the proximate cause, the hand that tips over the dominoes civilization has set up over the last thousands of years. <BR/><BR/>I'm not saying I have 100% certainty on this, by the way. But I do know that you just attacked straw men, whether or not Godesky's idea ultimately proves to be correct.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-59786153852580997432008-08-01T18:15:00.000-05:002008-08-01T18:15:00.000-05:00You are all whack!!!Civilization isn't going anywh...You are all whack!!!<BR/><BR/>Civilization isn't going anywhere.<BR/><BR/>Electricity will always flow to our outlets.<BR/><BR/>Oil is not scarce! Let alone coal, natural gas and nuke energy!<BR/><BR/>If history has taught us anything it's that things don't change that rapidly. You are all talking about things that won't happen in ANY of our lifetimes. Or our childrens childrens childrens, etc. lifetimes.<BR/><BR/>You are all (maybe most is better) a bunch of freaking pessimists.<BR/><BR/>Open your eyes and realize things just aren't that bad, no matter how bad “W” has _ucked things up.<BR/><BR/>You are what you eat, so stop eating nuts.<BR/><BR/>DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-64507326718701199342008-08-01T12:58:00.000-05:002008-08-01T12:58:00.000-05:00The idea of doing it in a hole is that one covers ...The idea of doing it in a hole is that one covers it up afterwards, and then doesn't have to look at it anymore.<BR/><BR/>By the way, Dave, along the lines of what you were talking about earlier, check out <A HREF="http://www.rewild.info/conversations/index.php?PHPSESSID=e8tarbpnqfspcfkqan8j7jdo23&board=39.0" REL="nofollow">this subsection of a forum</A> I found.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-19332066208947839272008-08-01T09:59:00.000-05:002008-08-01T09:59:00.000-05:00O.K. You have every right to live as you want and...O.K. You have every right to live as you want and poop in a hole for the next 70 years. Just don't do it the park I am walking through. It is not so much he smell, as it is the sight. Oh, by the way, do you think the park service (board) will allow you to dig holes in their park. Over the next seventy years it will take a lot of holes. Maybe you need a cat to backfill them. Har de Har Har. Just havin' fun. G.Pa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-22672211308958053442008-07-31T11:36:00.000-05:002008-07-31T11:36:00.000-05:00I'm fully aware of the risks. My biggest mental hu...I'm fully aware of the risks. My biggest mental hurdle is how I'm going to live outside of a building in the Iowa winter. But, if the Indians did it, I'm confident that it's possible. They probably built shelters, and so probably I will too.<BR/>I did read <I>Into the Wild</I>, and see the movie. Both were excellent, as well as touching. Alexander Supertramp's biggest mistakes was probably doing everything alone. The way things worked before civilization, foragers formed small bands of maybe a dozen or a few dozen (I'll learn more about this in anthro 101 next year, and be able to talk about it more convincingly). That way, if one had no luck hunting, he wouldn't starve, because chances are excellent that at least one of them will find something to eat every day.<BR/>THe wilderness is serious stuff. I respect that, and plan to enjoy it.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and what are we going to do if it turns out civilization is in fine shape? Well, either live like a regular person, paying taxes and getting a 9-to-5 job and taking out a mortgage, or get sick of that and live outside despite civilization's existence. Civilization's continued existence impedes outdoor living (with hunting and fishing licenses, and hunting seasons and limits, and property laws that severely limit foraging territory), but it doesn't make it impossible.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-3725087781774027052008-07-31T11:11:00.000-05:002008-07-31T11:11:00.000-05:00Also, I would guess that you've read all of Jack L...Also, I would guess that you've read all of Jack London's stuff, and Robert Service. And I read a short story when I was a kid about someone who went to the cold wilderness and forgot to pack matches, and couldn't start a fire, and froze to death. That one really scared me. <BR/><BR/>Also, when we went to High Arctic Lodge, one of the guides there, an Inuit, had lost his wife because their house had burned down at night in the winter, and without shelter she froze to death, even though he held her in his arms. They were out too far for help to get there in time. So surviving the wilderness isn't for wimps or fools. GrandmaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-69205766705036796742008-07-31T11:02:00.000-05:002008-07-31T11:02:00.000-05:00Have you read that book about the guy who starved ...Have you read that book about the guy who starved to death while trying to be a survivalist in Alaska? I forgot the name, but I think there's a movie out about it. I read that book and thought it was really sad. You could learn some good stuff from it, I think. GrandmaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-87202073303354443722008-07-31T10:04:00.000-05:002008-07-31T10:04:00.000-05:00WOW! You and Dave are really doomsdayers. What a...WOW! You and Dave are really doomsdayers. What are you going to do when you find out that this is not going to happen, i.e. we still have electricity, oil and hope. G.Pa <BR/><BR/>P.S Enjoy squatting over the hole for the next 50 years. By the way use leaves not toilet paper. In Iowa there is a plant called (Smart Weed - there really is). It is called that because you skin tingles when the leaf rubs on it. Sooooooooo ATTENTION: DO NOT USE SMART WEED FOR TOILET PAPER.. <BR/>PPS I hope I live long enough to see ......alkdu kliien alkdui sdls ldkkjdfu llkd sd lkadkoleropp.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-25041015117257077792008-07-30T12:45:00.000-05:002008-07-30T12:45:00.000-05:00P.S. Squatting over a hole in the snow at 3 in the...P.S. Squatting over a hole in the snow at 3 in the morning isn't my idea of fun either... but neither is squatting over a toilet at 3 in the morning. Going to the bathroom in any context is unlikely to thrill.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-43323346469030428022008-07-30T12:43:00.000-05:002008-07-30T12:43:00.000-05:00I will have to figure out how to salvage things. H...I will have to figure out how to salvage things. However, a lot of devices will become extremely irrelevant if the electricity infrastructure topples, and more if the oil infrastructure does. I do know there's more to survivalism than cooking and killing; that's why I'm going to learn how to build shelter, treat injuries and sicknesses, etc.. Hopefully, any author of an outdoor survival book will have thought of things that I haven't thought of.<BR/><BR/>As for my computers, well, as long as they still serve a purpose, I'll keep them around. My font skillz add up to little in terms of survivalism, but as long as people are still printing things and using computers to do it, I'll be getting in on that.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03918675492238901083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8044648.post-91507388869587523742008-07-30T09:32:00.000-05:002008-07-30T09:32:00.000-05:00O. K. I'll give you growing up. However, squatti...O. K. I'll give you growing up. However, squatting over a hole at 3:00 a.m. when it is 20 below is not my idea of a good time. Also, Dave has many good points (what are you going to do about the compute - put it in cold storage) Pun intended. G.Pa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com